Color me skeptical at this point in time. Which school do you move from the Big XII west to the Big XII east to make the conference balance out? Iowa State is further east but TCU would have the easiest travel out of DFW.
See, Pitt and Syracuse were both sort of surprised when the ACC announced they were both joining. Apparently, neither school was really aware the other school was trying to move.
So: Pitt really, really wants to get away from Syracuse.
A lot of things I found to be skeptical about here
Notwithstanding that the ACC just got a new TV contract in about the past year, just expanded to 14 teams, just pledged solidarity in the face of SEC expansion, and it just spiked its exit fees. For the life of me I can’t see Boston College having any interest in jumping to the Big-12 (although I relish the chance to see the ’Cats beat down that powder-puff program and avenge the 1994 Aloha Bowl disgrace). Maryland has been a member of the ACC forever, ditto Clemson. Florida State would be an extreme outlier.
Further, this statement
The choice for Notre Dame seems to be between the Big 12 and ACC with the Big 10 seemingly content with their current configuration.
strikes me wrong on so many levels. Like the Big-10 wouldn’t consider expansion if it knew Notre Dame was ready to dip into the conference pool.
I’d love to see the Big-12 pluck Pitt (which, as you point out, just joined the ACC) to pair with WVU but I just don’t see it happening.
There was a stretch there back in the day where the B1G was trying to kill ND and ND football. I have a relative that is a big shot at ND. She claims this wouldn’t be as big of deal today, but even less so in ten years. Basically, nothing a few funerals can’t fix.
No divisions. If we go past twelve, we'll drive straight to 16 and do pods.
It’s the wave of the future. Much more modular and fair scheduling.
I think the SEC will realize very quickly (if they already haven’t) that 16 is where they want/need to go. But the hard part will be who to get if we pull something like this off.
Poaching the top third of the ACC, and getting Clemson, FSU, Miami, and GT would be a coup. Snagging Pitt and Notre Dame to put in a Northeast division with WVU and Pitt would be astounding.
BlackCats alluded to this in separate threads over the course of the last six months, but the SEC taking Missouri closed a lot of doors (Big Ten, SEC) and opened a lot of new ones (Big 12, ACC). I always assumed that we’d just pillage the Big East, but this made a ton of sense (and was tweeted by some other folks too, so there’s at least some smoke). The Big 12 could merge with the football powers of the ACC to create a super-conference superior to any in the nation (in terms of sheer, quality depth and scope of television markets). The potential there is astounding if this were to come to fruition.
Beyond that, if the ACC would like to get back to twelve, they can take Louisville, Rutgers, and UConn and call it a day. Honestly, they’d probably be happier because basketball would totally rule the day and they’d become the existing Big East on steroids.
but do you really see this happening, Pan? I mean 12 teams led to a lot of infighting and bruised feelings. You think 16 won’t eventually lead to bitterness and acrimony, in the SEC or elsewhere? Just asking because that’s a leap into the unknown and quite the dilution in TV revenues. I personally don’t see any ACC teams jumping ship for the Big-12, nor do I see the Big-12 having the stones to pull such a maneuver off (much less attempt it). But that’s me. I’d be happy if I turn out wrong, though.
After Missouri left, I'm not willing to write off any scenario.
What I do know is that the ACC has proven itself to be the new Big East (since the Big East is the new C-USA). And the ACC has the worst TV contract by far. And the schools mentioned, especially those in the Southeast, are proud football schools that are in serious risk of becoming second fiddle quickly due to monetary issues.
The Big 12 is in an advantageous position right now because we have Tier 1 rights coming up soon. We can approach schools and networks and say, “If you join, we’re looking at getting a cut of X.” I remember having a conversation with TB and friend of BOTC, Curtis Kitchen, over some beers one day saying that we’ll probably go back to 12+ once those rights come around because someone will start sending feelers to us looking for a good deal, and we’ll work with Fox, NBC, ESPN, or whoever to see what the package would look like with them in it.
Pods seem like a good way to prevent some of the infighting
that plagued the Big 12 during the last two rounds. By being in regional “pods” you feel closer to your own regional brethren, while keeping some of the “powers” separated.
For instance: SW Pod would be the four Texas schools, separating UT and OU somewhat; NW Pod would be KU, KSU, OU, and OSU, yes a tough pod for us, but makes the most sense geographically and helps OU keep us fresh in their minds; NE Pod would be ISU, Pitt, WVU, Notre Dame; SE pod would be Clemson, FSU, GT, and Miami.
Each pod has at least one traditional “Power” school with major TV draws so one pod is not inherently more powerful than another by having more draws than another (see Big 12 South vs. Big 12 North).
Lets also not forget that Miami, VT, and BC are still relatively new to the ACC and added to increase football exposure in the early 00’s. Pitt is also an add to football exposure, and have no real ties to the ACC. Pitt would be, in my mind, much more inclined to follow WVU to the Big 12 which has a stronger football profile, and would keep them instantly competitive in basketball. I don’t think VT is going anywhere, because it is tied (at least politically) to Virginia (who is an old ACC hand). FSU is an old ACC team, but Miami inst and have always seemed to be unafraid to be upwardly mobile to promote the “big brand” at their school in football.
So, in summary, if this goes down I see Pitt and Miami very interested in a Big 12 move, with GT and FSU thinking hard about keeping themselves relevant compared to their in-state rivals in bigger conferences. ND is always a wildcard, and I have no opinion on Clemson whatsoever.
If I'm seeing this become a reality, these are the six schools I see...
Georgia Tech
Miami
Clemson
Florida State
Pitt
Notre Dame
The mere mention of BC in that article hurts credibility. They barely register in Boston behind all of the pro teams. Boston is THE pro sports town in this country. No one else comes close. Well, maybe Philly and NY, but Boston eats, breathes, and sleeps the Sox, Celtics, Pats, and Bruins.
VT isn’t coming. The SEC went after them pretty hard, and they said, “No.” There are political connections with UVA that they can’t shake from. UVA moved Heaven and Earth to get them into the ACC ten years ago. They aren’t leaving them there. Besides, they own the ACC and don’t run the risk of falling behind any other Virginia school that happens to be in a different conference. They’ll be the biggest fish in that pond, by far, if there were any sort of tangible exodus.
An ACC contraction where the football powers leave is good for VT. They’d hold the door open for the rest of these schools.
BC is a no-go. They are nothing, nada. If anything, they belong back in the Big Least where basketball reigns supreme. When I lived up in Boston the only BC fans were BC grads. Otherwise BC didn’t register, largely due to all the other schools in the city and their divergent loyalties. Pro sports all the way, with the exception of the Beanpot ice hockey tournament between Harvard, BU, BC and Northeastern. Now THAT got the city’s attention.
I would like to apologize for the title of this post, I really dropped the ball.
It boggles my mind that I made the connection to Star Wars, but somehow was unable to realize that the name Conference Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Big 12 would be about a billion times better than what I put up.
Opportunity missed.
Also, it makes me think of what the other two rounds would be called: Conference Wars Episode 1: The Big-PAC Menace
Conference Wars Episode 2: Attack of the SEC
A side benefit of all this is that I had to do some thinking about who would qualify as Jar-Jar (at the risk of angering the many anti-prequelers on this site, but bear with me, it is worth it).
So, who is most like Jar-Jar? Who was a huge part of Episode 1, only to completely disappear in later rounds due to overwhelming annoyance with that character? Who was an over-the-top caricature whose sheer absurdity caused them to no longer be viewed as funny but actually as an affront to intelligent beings everywhere?
Why, Nebraska, of course.
Cue image of Jar-Jar in a straw hat and wearing “N” overalls.
remember, Jar-Jar is the one who unknowingly gets the evil Empire started in the second movie. Dan dropped the ball and let the other conferences poach his own…
If Luck can do all this...
Then yes, we should throw caution to the wind and make him Grand High Dan Beebe. ;o)
MadCat - January 23, 2012
That would be the Coup d'état
Cue diabolical laughter…what twitter account do we follow after @fakedanbebe?
mac attack ict - January 23, 2012
@OllieOllieLucksInFree?
MadCat - January 23, 2012
This is criminally under-rec'd
Even if it is green.
MeatGeek - January 25, 2012
Agreed.
ChrisP Wildcat - January 25, 2012
I believe it when it happens.
Color me skeptical at this point in time. Which school do you move from the Big XII west to the Big XII east to make the conference balance out? Iowa State is further east but TCU would have the easiest travel out of DFW.
Anon_the_younger - January 23, 2012
Make the new kid, TCU, endure the extended travel.
I am highly skeptical as well, for sure, but thought it would be fun to discuss, nonetheless.
ChrisP Wildcat - January 23, 2012
Also, why would Pitt be contacting the Big 12
When they just moved from the Big East to the ACC?
How could they already know the ACC is so bad? Especially when they compare it to what they had before.
ChrisP Wildcat - January 23, 2012
My joke at EDSBS:
See, Pitt and Syracuse were both sort of surprised when the ACC announced they were both joining. Apparently, neither school was really aware the other school was trying to move.
So: Pitt really, really wants to get away from Syracuse.
jonfmorse - January 23, 2012
A lot of things I found to be skeptical about here
Notwithstanding that the ACC just got a new TV contract in about the past year, just expanded to 14 teams, just pledged solidarity in the face of SEC expansion, and it just spiked its exit fees. For the life of me I can’t see Boston College having any interest in jumping to the Big-12 (although I relish the chance to see the ’Cats beat down that powder-puff program and avenge the 1994 Aloha Bowl disgrace). Maryland has been a member of the ACC forever, ditto Clemson. Florida State would be an extreme outlier.
Further, this statement
strikes me wrong on so many levels. Like the Big-10 wouldn’t consider expansion if it knew Notre Dame was ready to dip into the conference pool.
I’d love to see the Big-12 pluck Pitt (which, as you point out, just joined the ACC) to pair with WVU but I just don’t see it happening.
CT-K-Stater - January 23, 2012
The Big 10 is irrelevant.
Notre Dame will not join the Big 10 unless that is their only option.
You don’t understand the hatred and bitterness from when the Big 10 blackballed them decades ago. Refused to even schedule them in anything.
jonfmorse - January 23, 2012
Except all those wonderful football games they play every year, of course.
Purdue, Michigan and Michigan State say “HAI!”
BracketCat - January 24, 2012
Recently.
There was a stretch there back in the day where the B1G was trying to kill ND and ND football. I have a relative that is a big shot at ND. She claims this wouldn’t be as big of deal today, but even less so in ten years. Basically, nothing a few funerals can’t fix.
BlackCats - January 24, 2012
No divisions. If we go past twelve, we'll drive straight to 16 and do pods.
It’s the wave of the future. Much more modular and fair scheduling.
I think the SEC will realize very quickly (if they already haven’t) that 16 is where they want/need to go. But the hard part will be who to get if we pull something like this off.
Poaching the top third of the ACC, and getting Clemson, FSU, Miami, and GT would be a coup. Snagging Pitt and Notre Dame to put in a Northeast division with WVU and Pitt would be astounding.
BlackCats alluded to this in separate threads over the course of the last six months, but the SEC taking Missouri closed a lot of doors (Big Ten, SEC) and opened a lot of new ones (Big 12, ACC). I always assumed that we’d just pillage the Big East, but this made a ton of sense (and was tweeted by some other folks too, so there’s at least some smoke). The Big 12 could merge with the football powers of the ACC to create a super-conference superior to any in the nation (in terms of sheer, quality depth and scope of television markets). The potential there is astounding if this were to come to fruition.
Beyond that, if the ACC would like to get back to twelve, they can take Louisville, Rutgers, and UConn and call it a day. Honestly, they’d probably be happier because basketball would totally rule the day and they’d become the existing Big East on steroids.
Personally, I think it’s a win/win for everyone.
Panjandrum - January 23, 2012
It's fun to game out
but do you really see this happening, Pan? I mean 12 teams led to a lot of infighting and bruised feelings. You think 16 won’t eventually lead to bitterness and acrimony, in the SEC or elsewhere? Just asking because that’s a leap into the unknown and quite the dilution in TV revenues. I personally don’t see any ACC teams jumping ship for the Big-12, nor do I see the Big-12 having the stones to pull such a maneuver off (much less attempt it). But that’s me. I’d be happy if I turn out wrong, though.
CT-K-Stater - January 23, 2012
After Missouri left, I'm not willing to write off any scenario.
What I do know is that the ACC has proven itself to be the new Big East (since the Big East is the new C-USA). And the ACC has the worst TV contract by far. And the schools mentioned, especially those in the Southeast, are proud football schools that are in serious risk of becoming second fiddle quickly due to monetary issues.
The Big 12 is in an advantageous position right now because we have Tier 1 rights coming up soon. We can approach schools and networks and say, “If you join, we’re looking at getting a cut of X.” I remember having a conversation with TB and friend of BOTC, Curtis Kitchen, over some beers one day saying that we’ll probably go back to 12+ once those rights come around because someone will start sending feelers to us looking for a good deal, and we’ll work with Fox, NBC, ESPN, or whoever to see what the package would look like with them in it.
Panjandrum - January 23, 2012
CBS sports loves us right now.
All I’ll say about this idea is that it is not as crazy as you might think, discussions have been had, and the B12 isn’t going anywhere any time soon.
BlackCats - January 23, 2012
CBS?
Time to jump in the sack with the SEC while giving the finger to the Rose Bowlers.
MadCat - January 24, 2012
Nah, they were just left off the list.
I don’t think they’ll be serious contenders for the B12 rights, but they’d like to get them.
The rest of the post was about raiding the ACC.
BlackCats - January 24, 2012
Pods, dude, not divisions.
BracketCat - January 24, 2012
Pods seem like a good way to prevent some of the infighting
that plagued the Big 12 during the last two rounds. By being in regional “pods” you feel closer to your own regional brethren, while keeping some of the “powers” separated.
For instance: SW Pod would be the four Texas schools, separating UT and OU somewhat; NW Pod would be KU, KSU, OU, and OSU, yes a tough pod for us, but makes the most sense geographically and helps OU keep us fresh in their minds; NE Pod would be ISU, Pitt, WVU, Notre Dame; SE pod would be Clemson, FSU, GT, and Miami.
Each pod has at least one traditional “Power” school with major TV draws so one pod is not inherently more powerful than another by having more draws than another (see Big 12 South vs. Big 12 North).
Lets also not forget that Miami, VT, and BC are still relatively new to the ACC and added to increase football exposure in the early 00’s. Pitt is also an add to football exposure, and have no real ties to the ACC. Pitt would be, in my mind, much more inclined to follow WVU to the Big 12 which has a stronger football profile, and would keep them instantly competitive in basketball. I don’t think VT is going anywhere, because it is tied (at least politically) to Virginia (who is an old ACC hand). FSU is an old ACC team, but Miami inst and have always seemed to be unafraid to be upwardly mobile to promote the “big brand” at their school in football.
So, in summary, if this goes down I see Pitt and Miami very interested in a Big 12 move, with GT and FSU thinking hard about keeping themselves relevant compared to their in-state rivals in bigger conferences. ND is always a wildcard, and I have no opinion on Clemson whatsoever.
jtarkman - January 24, 2012
If I'm seeing this become a reality, these are the six schools I see...
Georgia Tech
Miami
Clemson
Florida State
Pitt
Notre Dame
The mere mention of BC in that article hurts credibility. They barely register in Boston behind all of the pro teams. Boston is THE pro sports town in this country. No one else comes close. Well, maybe Philly and NY, but Boston eats, breathes, and sleeps the Sox, Celtics, Pats, and Bruins.
VT isn’t coming. The SEC went after them pretty hard, and they said, “No.” There are political connections with UVA that they can’t shake from. UVA moved Heaven and Earth to get them into the ACC ten years ago. They aren’t leaving them there. Besides, they own the ACC and don’t run the risk of falling behind any other Virginia school that happens to be in a different conference. They’ll be the biggest fish in that pond, by far, if there were any sort of tangible exodus.
An ACC contraction where the football powers leave is good for VT. They’d hold the door open for the rest of these schools.
Panjandrum - January 24, 2012
Only reason I mentioned BC and VT is because they are "new" to the ACC
And I only mentioned BC that once because 1. I don’t want them, and 2. I don’t see them wanting to move. And I also mentioned VT not wanting to move…
jtarkman - January 24, 2012
Agree Pan
BC is a no-go. They are nothing, nada. If anything, they belong back in the Big Least where basketball reigns supreme. When I lived up in Boston the only BC fans were BC grads. Otherwise BC didn’t register, largely due to all the other schools in the city and their divergent loyalties. Pro sports all the way, with the exception of the Beanpot ice hockey tournament between Harvard, BU, BC and Northeastern. Now THAT got the city’s attention.
CT-K-Stater - January 24, 2012
I would like to apologize for the title of this post, I really dropped the ball.
It boggles my mind that I made the connection to Star Wars, but somehow was unable to realize that the name Conference Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Big 12 would be about a billion times better than what I put up.
Opportunity missed.
Also, it makes me think of what the other two rounds would be called:
Conference Wars Episode 1: The Big-PAC Menace
Conference Wars Episode 2: Attack of the SEC
A side benefit of all this is that I had to do some thinking about who would qualify as Jar-Jar (at the risk of angering the many anti-prequelers on this site, but bear with me, it is worth it).
So, who is most like Jar-Jar? Who was a huge part of Episode 1, only to completely disappear in later rounds due to overwhelming annoyance with that character? Who was an over-the-top caricature whose sheer absurdity caused them to no longer be viewed as funny but actually as an affront to intelligent beings everywhere?
Why, Nebraska, of course.
Cue image of Jar-Jar in a straw hat and wearing “N” overalls.
ChrisP Wildcat - January 24, 2012
I actually would go with Dan Beebe
remember, Jar-Jar is the one who unknowingly gets the evil Empire started in the second movie. Dan dropped the ball and let the other conferences poach his own…
jtarkman - January 24, 2012
No, Dan is Qui Gon.
He sacrifices himself to save the conference/good guys.
ChrisP Wildcat - January 24, 2012
Dan GOT sacrificed, he didn't give himself up freely...
jtarkman - January 24, 2012
WHY DON'T YOU WANT NEBRASKA TO BE JAR-JAR JUST BACK OFF ALREADY!
And I wouldn’t say that Qui Gon actually intended to die in that battle with Darth Maul.
/nerd-off
ChrisP Wildcat - January 24, 2012
Because I think Dan Beebe is a much better representation
AND UR WRONG!!!!!!!! RAWR!
jtarkman - January 24, 2012
Excuse me gentlemen...
Your nerd is leaking out.
BlackCats - January 24, 2012
That's not a leak...
it’s a full on flood.
Jeremy Sharp - January 24, 2012
Looks like you got some geek on your shoe...
BracketCat - January 25, 2012
Frack that's going to leave a mark.
Catbacker98 - January 26, 2012
I like the idea of pilfering FSU and Clemson
and calling it a day with the Domers in Independence, and the ACC being the new Big East.
NormanUnderwood - January 24, 2012
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