In the dog-eat-dog world of recruiting, second place is as good as never being a part of the game at all. The road to a successful team usually begins and ends with the signing of the most talented prospects that are wooed by the siren song you sing during the recruiting process.
Considering that the Men's Basketball season is over, it's time for the armchair quarterbacks (er, point guards) to start picking apart the season that was and postulate on the 'what if' scenarios that go through the mind of the obsessed fan.
As I gorged myself on tournament basketball these past two weekends, I saw some names that rattled around in my head due to that strange sense of familiarity you get when you know that you've read or heard it before. As I started to Google some of these names, it came back to me; at one point or another, they were K-State recruits. Not only were they recruited by KSU, but they went so far as to take a visit to Manhattan and the campus. However, unlike the good hearted warriors that suited up for the 'Cats this year, these young men decided to pursue their college careers elsewhere.
Some of the names may mean nothing to you, and some may make you go, "Ah!" There are a couple of names that are sure to make you go, "Damn...if we only would have signed that guy!" Regardless, I thought it would be interesting to present them to you and let you ponder "what if" as I have.
I decided to go back to 2004 to try and retrieve names that may be relevant to you. I used that as my cutoff date because any player that signed in 2004 "could" have competed this year had they used a redshirt year sometime in the last five years. Anything beyond that would have had to have some sort of crazy circumstance to compete this past season.
I've decided to sort these players by year to put them in perspective. I've only dug up one player from 2004 since only one of those players was active this past season, but the name might surprise you...
Name: Chamberlain "Champ" Oguchi
Position: Guard
School Selected: Oregon (Finished career at Illinois State)
Awards: Missouri Valley "Newcomer of the Year" (2009), Missouri Valley Second-team All-Conference (2009)
Summary: This is a name that became relevant to K-State fans very recently. Well, less than a week ago to be exact. "Champ" Oguchi is the ISU player that caused the 'Cats fits during their first round NIT game last Wednesday. Oguchi torched KSU for twenty-three points on 5-10 shooting from beyond the arc. On the season, Oguchi averaged 15.2 points and 5.4 rebounds per game en route to Second-team All-Conference honors. Prior to his two years at Illinois State (one was a redshirt), Oguchi spent three seasons at Oregon.
Impact: High - Kansas State needed a consistent scoring threat from the outside, and a guy with Oguchi's size that can shoot nearly 40% from three would have helped immensely.
Name: Marcus Walker
Position: Guard
School Selected: Nebraska (Transferred to Colorado State)
Awards: Mountain West Third-Team All-Conference (2009)
Summary: Some folks may remember Marcus Walker because of his flashes of ability during his Freshman season at Nebraska. However, when Barry Collier left NU, Walker ended up transferring to Indian Hills Community College in Ottumnwa, IA. After his lone season in Junior College, he transferred to Colorado State where he became a standout performer for the Rams. He averaged 17.1 ppg during his two seasons in Ft. Collins.
Impact: Medium - I don't think Walker would have been much better than Pullen or Clemente, but he was a decent scorer that probably could have provided some depth from the bench.
Name: Stefhon Hannah
Position: Guard
School Selected: Missouri
Awards: Big 12 "Newcomer of the Year" (2007), Big 12 Third-Team All-Conference (2007),
Summary: The legend. Any K-State fan that closely followed recruiting during Bob Huggins' first recruiting class knows the name "Stefhon Hannah", and to this day, his name elicits mixed feelings amongst the fan base (even our own editors). Sources claimed that Hannah signed and faxed a letter of intent to play for Huggins, but his mother wouldn't sign it as she wanted him to play for Mike Anderson. Hannah himself later refuted this by saying that he signed LOI's to both schools and ultimately sent one to the school of his choice. Regardless, he had the K-State coaching staff anticipating an LOI that never appeared. For that, he drew the ire of KSU fans everywhere.
To make matters worse, Stefhon could ball. During his Junior season, Hannah was the Big 12's "Newcomer of the Year" and an All-Conference selection. He could have seriously contributed to a team that was in desperate need of an exceptional point guard.
If you don't believe me, as yourself one question: Would you have liked to have seen Michael Beasley, Bill Walker, and Stefhon Hannah on the floor at the same time?
Yes, you would have.
Regardless, to follow up his exceptional Junior year, Hannah got himself into a bar fight near the end of his Senior year that essentially ended his career and the Tigers chances of making an NCAA Tournament run. Kansas State fans wondered what may have happened had Hannah faxed that LOI to KSU. Maybe, in the end, he did too.
Impact: High - in the past two seasons, KSU was in desperate need of an exceptional point guard who could score and distribute. Hannah fit the bill for both. While he probably wouldn't have played in '08-'09, you wonder if added successes incurred by the Wildcats due to his presence on the team may have helped this year's team by providing additional NCAA Tournament experiences (2007) and a deeper run in 2008.
Name: Tyrel Reed
Position: Guard
School Selected: Kansas
Awards: None
Summary: There isn't too much to say here. Reed, so far, has proven to be a lesser guard than the one chosen to replace him, Jacob Pullen. On this year's team, Reed would have given the 'Cats a fairly reliable three point threat from the perimeter, but it's not really possible for anyone to say that he's a better guard than anyone that we have on the roster.
Impact: Low
Name: Kristof Ongenaet
Position: Forward
School Selected: Syracuse
Awards: None
Summary: I only assume that the coaches recruited this guy because his name would have looked funny on the back of a jersey. He barely amounted to squat over the past two years for Syracuse.
Impact: Very Low - He may have been better than a walk-on, but that's about it.
Name: Victor Dubovitsky
Position: Forward
School Selected: Kansas State...but opted for pro ball in Russia
Awards: Beet rations?
Summary: Dubovitsky is kind of a forgotten entity in K-State basketball recruiting. A couple of years ago, Billy Gillespie convinced Dubovitsky that College Station would be a good place to spend his final two years of college. However, when Billy Clyde decided to take the Kentucky job, Victor decided that it was time to reopen his recruitment. Kansas State stepped in to fill the void for the sharp shooting Russian big man, but at the last minute, he opted not to attend KSU and pursue professional ball in Russia.
Honestly, I couldn't dig much up on the kid. Mainly because I can't speak Russian. However, it sounds like he was loaned to some other team. Maybe it was for bread? Or a goat?
Impact: Medium - Let's face it; KSU could have used a 6'7" forward that could bomb a three-point shot on a consistent basis. He may not have brought the multi-dimensonal attributes that Sutton does from the wing, but he may have provided more of a scoring spark. Regardless, this one has always been a big 'what if' due to the fact that he had received some attention from good programs, and he was a standout player on an always exceptional Chipola J.C. squad.
Name: Marshall Moses
Position: Forward
School Selected: Oklahoma State
Awards: None
Summary: Moses hasn't gotten a lot of attention prior this season as he's mostly been a role player in his first two years, but he blossomed this conference season. In his last ten games, he had six double doubles, and since the conference opener against Texas A&M, he scored in double figures nine times. He's proven to be a strong inside presence for the Pokes, and he picked up solid minutes accordingly as the season went on.
Impact: Medium - He wouldn't have been a world beater, but he most likely would have been the second or third best post man for Kansas State had he been on the roster. So, he would have had a positive impact...especially since he still has two years to play.
Now, I'm warning all of you right now...prepare to be sick...
Name: Marcus Thornton
Position: Guard
School Selected: LSU
Awards: SEC "Player of the Year" (2009), SEC First-team All-Conference (2009), Wooden Award Finalist (2009), SEC Second-team All-Conference (2008)
Summary: Do you think KSU could have used a 6'4" shooting guard who scored in double digits in all but four games he played this year and averaged 21.1 ppg with 47.2% FG? Yeah, I do.
Impact: Very High - I'm not going to over-analyze this one too much. We needed consistent scoring from the perimeter, and any time you have a major conference POY on your squad, it's a good thing.
Name: DeJuan Blair
Position: Forward/Center
School Selected: Pitt
Awards: Big East "Co-Player of the Year" (2009), USBWA and Sporting News First-Team All-American (2009), Freshman All-American (2008)
Summary: This probably makes you as sick as it does me. DeJuan Blair visited Manhattan the same weekend as Michael Beasley, Marcus Thornton, and Fred Brown. Do you wonder what it would have been like to have both Michael and DeJuan on the blocks while Thornton chucked up threes? I sure do.
Impact: Insane - Picture Michael Beasley and DeJuan Blair on the blocks at the same time. We'd have a Final Four banner hanging in Bramlage right now.
Name: Montrell McDonald
Position: Guard/Forward
School Selected: Arkansas
Awards: None
Summary: Not much to see here. The kid ended up getting suspended by Pelphrey, and it looks like he never finished the year.
Impact: None - I'm not going to over think this one either. Dude didn't finish one year of D1 ball. He would have been no good to us.
Name: Josh Crittle
Position: Forward
School Selected: Oregon (God, quit taking our players already)
Awards: None
Summary: Crittle had a fairly uneventful Freshman year for a bad basketball team that happened to beat us.
Impact: None - He may end up being a decent player eventually, but I'd say guys like Curtis Kelly and Wally Judge will work out better in the long run.
Name: Mario Little
Position: Guard/Forward
School Selected: Kansas
Awards: None
Summary: Little is kind of an interesting prospect. At times, he's shown flashes of significant ability. However, an early season injury has probably caused him to play down to a lower level than he's capable of.
Impact: Medium - I'm going to inflate the impact Little could have had because I believe that he most likely wouldn't have gotten injured at KSU (eh, why not assume that?), and he would have probably started over Sutton on the wing. Since we were lacking scoring down low, Little probably would have been given more opportunities to show his abilities at KSU since he wouldn't have had options like Sherron Collins and Cole Aldrich in front of him.
So, as you can see, there have been a bevy of good (and average) players that have stepped on KSU's campus in the past few years. Some of these players had solid careers. A few of them flamed out. A couple of them became elite players. Regardless of what you think of them individually, imagine what this lineup would have looked like like in 2007/2008:
PG - Stefhon Hannah
SG - Marcus Thornton
SF - Bill Walker
PF - Michael Beasley
C - DeJuan Blair
That's a sick, sick lineup right there. Now imagine what this year's roster would have looked like had Bill and Mike left and Hannah graduated:
PG - Denis Clemente
SG - Marcus Thornton
SF - Dominique Sutton
PF - Darren Kent
C - DeJuan Blair
That lineup may not have the same amount of pop that the other one did, but that's still a lineup with two Wooden Award finalists, a Second-team All-Conference selection (Clemente), and two nasty defenders in Kent and Sutton. That would have been enough to keep this team in contention for a Big 12 title, and they most likely would still be playing in the NCAA tournament.
While this post may depress some who read it, I believe it brings up an important point. We really have no idea of the potential that some of these kids possess when they're being recruited by KSU, and if they show enough interest in the school to actually visit, you could have a chance to field a very special team. Look at that theoretical '07-'08 lineup and tell me that it doesn't give you chills thinking about what might have been?
With the rehiring of Bill Snyder, there's been a lot of talk about "coaching up" lightly recruited players in hopes of creating sustained success. However, when you go back and look at recruiting hits and misses (mainly misses), you see what kind of impact recruiting has on the makeup of any given team and program, and you quickly realize that recruiting ability is a critical component in the successes of an NCAA coaching tenure. Even though other schools may mock Frank Martin's high school coaching background, the fact that he has stepped up recruiting at KSU (like Huggins did in his short time here) is a big reason why folks are so excited. They understand that wins follow talent, and talent follows wins. If Martin is able to lay down a solid foundation with these highly recruited athletes, winning begets more winning, and our beloved Wildcats will continue to see more postseason appearances and national exposure.
My hope is that as we continue to see the growth in this program, more Marcus Thornton's and DeJuan Blair's choose to attend KSU after their visit as opposed to looking and committing elsewhere. As you can see, keeping them here could have lead to some good looking teams and levels of success not seen around these parts since a guy named Tex Winter coached here.
We can only hope that you get us there Frank. Godspeed.
2 recs | 19 comments
Nicely done.
I’ll add that the recent announcement that American Airlines will begin direct service from DFW to Manhattan will have an implication in our recruiting in both sports (obviously more so for football). To me, Dejuan Blair is probably the biggest “miss”. We needed a big body to compete with the Griffin’s and Aldrich’s this year. While I will continue to support the guy’s who don the purple and white, here’s to hoping we can nail down some of these high-profile guys in the future.
My question, what was it that made them go elsewhere? Was it the Manhattan area? Was it the school? Coaching staff?
EMAW - March 24, 2009
I can't recall on all of them...
I read Blair’s bio on the Pitt website, and it said he grew up close to the university, so I assume that’s a reason. Also, it probably doesn’t help to have Michael Beasley there on your recruiting visit either. You know that you’re not going to get the opportunities since he’ll be the main man on the blocks.
Blair would have been the biggest get, but Thornton, to me, would have been a huge addition. We desperately needed a guard last year who could score and stretch out the perimeter for Mike. Thornton, Walker, and Beasley could have played off of each other so well. If you add Hannah to the mix, you would have had the most talented team in the country, IMO.
Panjandrum - March 24, 2009
IIRC, Blair grew up like literally 5 minutes away from Pitt's homecourt.
So, yeah, he’s a hometown boy.
And, I didn’t follow his recruitment all that closely, but from what I’ve heard since, he seemed to have been a Pitt lean all along.
I also think you’re severely underscoring Moses’ importance. Simple per-game averages don’t do him justice, with his role in a 4-out, 1-in offense. I think he would do a bunch of good things in your system, honestly. I’m a big fan of his.
Awesome work, though. Very, very interesting to read.
rockchalk - March 25, 2009
I've gotten some feedback on the KSUFans board that I've underscored his importance.
I probably did. The problem was that I didn’t really have one quantifiable way to classify our players. Kent was pretty productive even though he was limited in his abilities. Samuels is probably going to be more of a SF/PF combo going forward, but I love his potential, so I’d rather have him in the long haul. Therefore, I had Moses behind those two.
Regardless, Moses is a good player, and I’d love to have him on this team.
Oh, and Blair was a Pitt lean. I think he came to KSU more as a favor to his AAU coach (who was very close with Huggins), but the point is the same; he did come on an official visit, and that means there was a chance (regardless how small) that we could have done something to change his mind. Maybe.
Panjandrum - March 25, 2009
Oh yeah.
It’s always fun to dream. And yes, Blair is a freaking monster.
And like I said, great post.
Just that one little nit-pick.
rockchalk - March 26, 2009
I'd add Kenny Kadji
to the 2008 list. He didn’t have anything more than a pedestrian year at Florida this year, he averaged 4.4 points and near 3 rebounds in 12+ minutes per game. That said, we could have used a 6’10" kid with decent skill. I watched a few UF games and kept my eye on him when he played. Typical freshman big kid who had his issues adapting, but I think he would have had a bigger impact on our team than he did at UF.
gw1754 - March 24, 2009
Not to mention Dago Pena and Ray Shipman
Who’s to say if any of them will amount to anything, but we finished 2nd on all of them and that seems to be the primary criterion for this list.
BracketCat - March 24, 2009
The primary criteron was if the player took an official visit to Kansas State.
Had I gone through the lists of kids who expressed interest in KSU, that would have taken days to put together.
DeMarcus Cousins, Kadji, Shipman, Boynton, Pena, Terrence Boyd, Alex English, Herb Pope, etc.
Kids will say that they’re interested in a school, but I tend to believe that if they go on a visit, their interest is more serious. Others will disagree with me on that, but I firmly believe that. So that was my criteria.
Panjandrum - March 25, 2009
I forgot Kadji
didn’t visit here. He was here for the Elite camp. He didn’t take any official visits, just visited each of his three finalists unofficially. I Understand the rationale.
gw1754 - March 25, 2009
OK
BracketCat - March 25, 2009
Great post
I was actually thinking of this a few weeks ago to see if we still had anybody else (other than Cousins) in mind.
I don’t like to do a lot of what ifs, but Dejuan Blair is the reason why I chose Pitt to win the national championship. What a force.
mystman995 - March 24, 2009
Someone on GoPowercat or KSU fans mentioned Oguchi...
So it got me thinking. I remembered that Blair visited KSU, and at the time, and when he passed, everyone said, “Oh, well, we got Mike.” While I love Mike, Blair is nothing to sneeze at. He’s a freaking man.
Panjandrum - March 24, 2009
as long as we are thrown out what if's....
can’t forget about the impact a healthy Dave Hoskins woulda made with that imaginary 2007/2008 roster…. sick sick sick.
Bauer Power - March 24, 2009
Yep, and to be honest
I think David Hoskins could have been better than Bill Walker that year. He was a leader and an impact player. He would have been huge being a senior on that team. We all saw the senior leadership from Darren Kent this year. Now consider that Hoskins was twice the player of DK. Yep, sick sick sick.
Any lineup in the nation with either Walker or Hoskins coming off the bench would have been sick.
mystman995 - March 24, 2009
Good stuff, Pan
TB - March 24, 2009
Damn you
I had managed to forget about Dubovitsky.
For a blissful two weeks in 2007, we all thought we might have a front line of Beasley, Walker, Hoskins and Dubovitsky. That’s sicker than sick.
BracketCat - March 25, 2009
This is really good stuff.
I thought of, and actually started, doing this exact thing about KU’s program probably 2 or 3 weeks ago. It’s kinda fun to look at “what coulda been”. When I started mine, I got about 3 players in, and kinda realized that things happened the way they did for a reason. I really wouldn’t have traded any of the players that KU actually GOT, for the ones they missed out on. With the exception of a couple for KSU (Blair and Thornton), I think you would say the same thing about KSU.
Andy Edwards - March 25, 2009
Yeah I'm not sure how much "What If'ing" you guys can do after winning the NC last year.
But joking aside, I’m sure we may have a similar post in a few years about Demarcus Cousins, Bryce Brown, Raymond Cotton, and hopefully not Chris Harper.
mystman995 - March 25, 2009
I think I would have taken Oguchi, Walker, Moses, and Little on this year's squad.
I would have like to see that. Oguchi and Walker would have been upgrades to the bench (Oguchi may have started on the wing instead of Sutton.), Moses probably could have started. Little may have started (had he been healthy the whole season).
I think those four would have been upgrades over someone on this year’s roster, so I’d have taken all of them in addition to Blair and Thornton.
Panjandrum - March 25, 2009
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